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Posted: 12:43 PM Feb 7, 2008
YOUR THOUGHTS ON DRINKING AND SNOWMOBILING - PAGE 4
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I think that you as reporters are trying to give snowmobilers a bad name. It is the responsability of the person/persons themselves to drink or not drink. The last time I was at a bowling alley it to was at a tavern and I have not heard a story about that. The last time I was at a softball game there was beer being served there. I am a avid snowmobiler that does not drink while riding. I do not like seeing other people drink while they are riding. I do stop into taverns while out riding for the day. I do so, so that I can warm up, eat, and have a soda or two. My point of this, is every year the media hypes the alcohol related deaths on snowmobiles but not the other alcohol related deaths. Have you ever tried to put into comparison the amount of snowmobiles registered and the amount of miles driven by snowmobilers in this state to the amount of deaths that occur. I think that you are doing the sport a real injustice by running this report and the weekly report that you have put together. Again snowmobilers are not the only people that are drinking alcohol, and not all snowmobilers drink while riding. This is sport enjoyed by many people of all ages. Please consider removing this from your newscast to be fair to the snowmobing public, and to be fair to anyone who may stop for a drink no matter what form of transportation he or she may be in/on. I sure hope I never run into you or anyone from the station having a drink, and then witness that person getting into a vehicle, I may have to write an open letter so that everyone in the community also knows about it happening.
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The death toll is unacceptable. Snowmobile violations should be tied to the driver's license. Other than that, the laws are tough enough. Do not blame the bars -- they do not force a people to drink. The book should be thrown at the driver responsible for Mr. Salerno's death. Since it has received publicity, make him an example. It may make the next driver think twice before driving drunk if prison time is a possiblity.
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Sue,
It is disappointing to watch such a propaganda video from Channel 7 without any background information or comment from people who truly love to snowmobile and not drink while they ride. I have snowmobiled for 38 years and just love to travel throughout the wooded country. It is a true passiion of mine and having this sport trashed by the media is very upsetting. Those people that were filmed in the bars are more than likely the same people you will see in a bar during the spring, summer and fall, only now they are in cars. This hopefully small group of people drink, no matter what the reason is, but your video made ALL SNOWMOBILERS DRUNKS and that is not right. It is my hope that Channel 7 can investigate more and see the majority of snowmobilers stop at resturants, hotels and yes bars but have soft drinks and not always alcohol.
Thank you for listening.
Don
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There will always be people who drink and drive a snowmobile (ATV, boat, motorcycle, vehicle) but there are a lot of people out there who are responsible riders and don't drink and drive. I am not sure how it will ever be stopped. I just read in the paper last week that a man was arrested for his "8th" time drinking while driving a vehicle!
I am sorry that there was another death this time involving a reporter but just like you are told not to get into vehicle with someone who was drinking, he should never have gotten on the back of that snowmobile. I am assuming he was with these people all day and had to have known there was drinking involved, maybe the reporter himself. The responsibility for ourselves lies with ourselves.
On your broadcast last night, you indicated all trails lead to a tavern or restaurant. Where else would they go? Only some taverns are accessible by snowmobile, all taverns and restaurants are accessible by vehicle. You indicated the northern part of the state has the most accidents. That is because we have more snow and a longer season just like larger cities have more vehicle accidents because there are more people in a concentrated area.
The snowmobile or the sport of snowmobiling is not responsible, it is the poor choice made by the rider(s) just like ATV riding, boating, motorcycling, and driving a vehicle. It is the responsibility of the driver not to be under the influence while operating a motorized vehicle and the responsibility of a rider to make sure the driver is not under the influence before getting on the back of a snowmobile, ATV, in a boat, on a motorcycle in a car! Bottom line you are responsible for your own actions and safety.
Gary & Joan
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The report from WBBM was one of the worst news reports I have ever seen on your channel. They set out to prove a point and that was the only point they wanted to uncover. Yes drinking and driving on a snowmobile is routine, however the maps arn't published to give you directions to the bars, they are published to show you the trail system. It just happens that bars are one of the many different business sponsors so the maps can be created. The reporters from WBBM should learn to ride on the right hand side of the trail. Instead of more laws on OWI maybe there should be a law you must take a snowmobile saftey course to ride in wisconsin. We put on a little over 1,000 miles a year, we see our share of recless drivers, but for the most part 80% of them slow down and follow the rules of the trail. The news report from WBBM makes it sound like after dark 100% of all drivers are drunk. Did this news reporter never go to a bar in his life? It's too bad their buddy got killed, but shoudn't he have know enough himself not to ride on a vehicle with a drunk driver?
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To the death's in 2007- 2008 for snowmobiling, out of those 15, 1 teenage boy was my son's best friend! It hasn't yet been a year until 2-15-08, and with this issue all over your news, it brakes my teenage son's heart to have to relive this horrific topic. All though drinking, drugs, nor speed was a factor in this freak snowmobile accident, my teenage son wishes since he rides snowmobiles that the trails didn't lead to a bar as they do and need more law enforcement on the trails. As he also replies that the news anchor man that died should not of gotten on the sled with a drunk person, that's his fault. My son's friend had a freak snowmobile accident that he hit 3 fences cleared the first barbwire, barrelled his whole body through the 2nd and decapitaded on the 3rd for a malfunction on the sled. Please end this segment for all the greiving families.thank you, sharis
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This investigative reporter should go back to Chicago first of all because all he is trying someone to blame for his co-workers death when all he needs to do is look in the casket to find the guilty one.
I have been riding sleds for over 40 years and yes I have had a few when out on the trails, just like Mr. Salerno. Did someone hold a gun to his head and force him to drink that night.
Mr Investigative reporter, why dont you go to wausau or chicago and go in every bar to see if anyone is drinking and then do a story on it.
Sorry to say, but your friend probably had no business on a snowmobile because he had probably never driven one before.
Why dont you try and get cars banned because people drink and drive, not that it is right. Why dont you try and get alchohol banned in the USA because your friend drank too much.
If you dont like snowmobiling or anyone drinking, stay home. I am not condoning drinking and driving but where do you want to stop allowing people to make decisions.
Channel 7 should never have run this one sided story.
Maybe I will go out with my hidden camera and get film of people that work at channel 7 drinking and then driving.
Mr Salerno's death was a tragedy but he made the choice not me.
tom
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I agree with the report - people driving under the influence with any vehicle pose a danger to others no matter whether it is on the trail, water or road.
I am sure an equal number of the people in the bars shown left by car or truck on the local highways. They too were participating in the drinking games with the bartenders. This problem is not just with snowmobilers.
You may also note in Central Wisconsin that alot of the snowmobilers, of which I am, drink sodas in lieu of alcohol and visit the bar/restaurants to warm up and grab a bite to eat. It is a fact that the many of the rural establishments are taverns as this is part of Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin DNR and local snowmobile clubs have done a great job educating our youth about the dangers of "drinking" and what can happen when you lose the ability to fully control a vehicle whether it be a car or a snowmobile.
I would fully support legislation that would tie a snowmobile or an ATV drunken driving charge to ones drivers license.
Unfortunately, Wisconsin has alot of repeat offenders until they do not survive the last crash.
David Oberbeck
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I STARTED ATV RIDING THIS YEAR AND PUT ON 2350 MILES IN FOUR MONTHS. WE SAW A LOT OF THE STATE AND IT WAS GREAT. WE TOOK ALL THE SAFETY CLASSES AND ORDERED ALL THE CORRECT FITTING SAFETY GEAR.WE ROAD IN GROUPS OF TWO TO THIRTEEN RIDERS. WITH THAT SAID, ATV'S OR SNOWMOBILS IT IS UP TO THE RIDER TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE ACTIONS. WE HAVE ALL THE CORRECT LAWS IN PLACE AND WE SHOULD INCREASE THE FINES. THIS MAY MAKE THE PERSON THINK TWICE BEFORE THEY ACT. IN TODAYS WORLD PEOPLE WANT TO BLAME SOMEONE ELSE INSTEAD OF TAKING THE BLAME. THIS INCLUDES: MANUFACTURES, THE COMPANY THAT SOLD IT ETC. IF WE ALL WOULD THINK AHEAD AND PLAN OUT OUR TRIPS AND TRY TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR ALL TO FOLLOW INSTEAD OF A I DON'T CARE ATTITUDE ALL OUR OUTDOOR SPORTS WILL IMPROVE.
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Hi Sue, I'm a native of Wausau and this past Friday I was actually at the tavern in St. Germain shown in this segment while the undercover sting was going on. My reactions vary - the fact that I was possibly being filmed by some guy walking around with a James Bond camera is a little creepy! Your story makes snowmobiling and the enviroment I was in sound so scarry? I'm not seeing it. Not once did I feel like I was in danger that evening. To put it into perspective I was able to walk outside by myself without fear of being stabbed or mugged, how often can a person living in downtown Chicago say that? Maybe we should head to Chicago and set up a sting of our own targeting just one of the many issues that community faces 24/7 on a daily basis. That evening I met new people from both Wisconsin and Illinois, we had fun and all got along because we all shared the same common ground - our passion for snowmobiling. In my opinion this passion breeds responsibility in the manor that the majority of the snowmobilers out there who truly love the sport strive to keep it going. Believe it or not, a ton of people and family's work hard volunteering their time throughout the year to make the trail systems as safe and as well marked as possible! Their's also alot of effort put in by local snowmobile clubs to create the, as you say, "connect the dot tavern" trail maps. In reality, a trail map is a responsible safety mesure taken by each county's trail system to advocate safe passage. From what I'm seing in your TV segments it all boils down to the same story - the majority will suffer from the minority's unresponsible actions.
Mike Steckling, Wausau
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The death of an individual is sad: regardless of their sobriety or not. To blame the establishment for a customer drinking too much is misdirection of blame. No one forced this gentleman to drink enough beverages to push himself to a .22 blood alcohol level. Attacking bartenders of Vilas County will not bring him back. More importantly, your undercover video slanderized a bar in St. Germain, while the last bar visited before the accident was in Sayner.
You presented a biased opinion of a wonderful county in the northwoods. First we have more snowmobile deaths than other regions of the states because we have more snowmobilers and snowmobile trails. Our winter tourism primarily stems from snowmobilers visiting from outside the area. When people are on vacation: some of them drink, some of them snowmobile, and some do both. I don't condone doing both, but because tourists come to the northwoods and do such things is no reason to blame the local business owners, or bartenders.
This crew intended to shoot undercover footage of people drinking and getting overserved in bars. It shouldn't be a surprise that you found people drinking, and perhaps drunk, in a bar. If I went to any city, in any state, and picked a bar there is a good chance i would see someone drinking too much, especially at night. People sometimes do that in a bar, that's why some of them go there. Again, I don't condone such behavior. What your crews didn't mention was that they went to several other bars before this one, hoping for the right moment. I learned this from friends still bartending in the county.
I bartended in the northwoods for several years. It is not easy to convince a customer to stop drink. It is even more difficult to kick them out of the bar, but we do it. It leads to obnoxious behavior.
You slandered a fine person's reputation with this expose. The bartender in St. Germain with the "throw up" comment is an upstanding citizen, and diligent bartender. A few months ago that same bartender had his nose broken by a customer, because he tried to cut him off. The customer was from out of state, it was not a local resident of our county.
The bartender you interviewed deserves an apology. He has an account set up with the motel across the road. He puts up those who over-indulge, no questions asked, at this motel. The bar featured in your undercover video pays for these rooms. Short of tackling a customer to prevent them from driving home there isn't much a bartender can do to stop someone intent on driving. They can call the police and report the driver and the plate numbers. It has been done, though we don't brag about such things.
You set out to show the worst of the northwoods. You failed to mention the charities that bar supports. You failed to mention the community building efforts and charitable activities of that establishment and its employees.
I do know the last establishment where the gentlemen was drinking. For whatever reason he left there to return to where he was staying. Instead of going in this direction he went in the opposite direction, toward Star Lake, and another establishment.
I don't know if the last bar in Sayner had cut these two off. All i can tell you is that, they were not headed home. They were going to another bar in Star Lake. I know the trail they were using, it is right next to a place a lived. I know the owners of all rental cabins in Star Lake, they were not staying there. The only reason they were on that trail was to hit another bar.
Had the bartender cut them off in Sayner? I don't know. Regardless, they seemed intent to continue drinking. Stop blaming those who pour drinks for a living. The reason there was an accident is that two grown men drank too much and climbed back on a sled when they should have known better.
Thank you,
Andy
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Thank you for having the guts to do this story. I have been wishing for years that someone in this area would take on the special interests up here and tell the truth about alcohol consumption and snowmobiling. I have lived up here in the Northwoods for almost 20 years. I love it and don't want to live anywhere else. But I am truly sick to death of all the whiners and excuse makers and irresponsible people who are ruining this beautiful part of our state with their alcohol abuse and the consequences of their behavior when they are drinking. It is not just a winter time problem either - they are driving drunk on our highways, out on the lakes in high speed boats, on jet skis, deer hunting, ice fishing, ATVing, etc. while under the influence. And it isn't just "those tourists from Illinois". The people who live up here are just as guilty, if not moreso, of promoting the culture of alchohol and overindulgence. Most of us who live up here drink responsibly and we are sick and tired of having to listen to the drunks in bars and restaurants ranting and raving about the DNR taking away their "right" to be on a snowmobile after drinking or about the media telling this story or the "softhearted liberals" who are worried about the victims of this disgustingly irresponsible behavior. Who do these people think they are? They have no RIGHT to endanger the lives of others with their drunken and senseless and juvenile behavior. It is time that we throw the book at these morons - and I don't mean after they have or cause an accident - I mean the first time they are picked up for OWI on a snowmobile - or in a car, boat or any other vehicle for that matter. We cannot continue to ignore or condone the behavior that is killing and maiming and hurting so many people...many of them innocent victims. Wisonsin, it is time to grow up.
Mark S.
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I think it's up to the individual person to know when they have had enough to drink. But i also think the bartender should be watching for signs, and know when to cut the person off.
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I can't believe the people who are responding stating that because a "celebrity" was killed is the only reason this has been reported. If you consistently watch the news, EVERY time someone is killed - snowmobile, auto, drowning, murder, etc. - it's the top story. The reporter from Chicago did his story to investigate why this happened to his friend and colleague, not to point a finger at northern Wisconsin. He's letting everyone know what is a common occurrence and he did not set anything up, make up stories or report anything that was inaccurate. He showed dozens and dozens of people from various bars across the area getting incredibly drunk and hopping on their snowmobiles. That was just one night. Multiply that times every night the trails are open, especially weekends. That's how sick and wrong this is and how blind people can be to an ongoing problem. What I want to see is the footage they did not or could not show on a public newscast. Yes, his friend was more than likely drinking and is just as guilty as the driver who is now being held responsible for the friend's death. It does not alter the fact whatsoever that this reporter decided to look into the issue further and found what is a disgusting display of irresponsibility. It frightens me and until something is done to start resolving the recklessness, I will never hit the trails again. I want to thank this reporter and NewsChannel 7 for bringing this topic to light. It has obviously touched many a nerve in our area - as it should!
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in your article on the news at 10 pm said the people from Illinois are mad.
Then maybe they should put blame where blame should be put on each individual person. No one twists anyones arm to drink and drive if they get offered ride homes from friends or
SAFE RIDE as most bars offer then why blame the establshments they go to? Sorry people got to start taking account for thier own choices and not blaming everyone else. IF your an adult take blame where blame is due on yourself.
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You can't blame the bartenders. They are not there to play the role of your mother. Everyone responds to alcohol differently...is the bartender supposed to ask your age and weight and how much you've had to drink already so they can calculate if you can be served??? That's ridiculous... The incident was awful but bartenders and tavern owners are not responsible for someone else's judgement call. I didn't see any bartenders forcing someone's mouth open and pouring the booze down their throats...
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I think that story was a hit to every responsable snowmobiler in the state. This is the same station that lost their anchor while his group was drunk and they are trying to justify it by making every sledder in wisconsin look like fools. This is weak attempt to shine a poor light on the state... and your station, to lazy to do it's own reports used nothing but a bias point of veiw. Thank you for making every fund raiser and club get togeater look like a DRUNKIN BASH, by spreading fear with this atempt at quality programing.It's just what we need stories by heartbroke television stations trying to save the world when it was their anchors actions that lead to his death. I'll step down from my soapbox now!!!!!!!!!
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Well, personally I am not a snowmobiler. I'd rather spend my winters indoors. However, just like driving on the roads, there should be a bigger consequence for driving drunk. The only real punishment is when someone gets killed, and by then it's too late. Personally I see it as a great way to "weed out the dumb ones." Survival of the fittest (and smartest). Use your head people. That's what it's there for. Just imagine your wife or kids wrapped around a tree because you had to drink while on the trails.
CP
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First off, I just want to say that I am very disappointed that NewsChannel 7 aired the one-sided story from Dave Savini. That does no good for a recreation that brings in over $250 million to this state each year. It was unfair and totally uncalled for. Rarely do we hear any positive news about snowmobiling. Mostly negative - Polluting the environment, Too noisy, Irresponsible & drunk snowmobiliers, Too many deaths, etc.
It was a classless move by Savini to place a hidden camera in the bars and focus on the negatives of this great recreation. Yes, it's too bad that his buddy got killed on a snowmobile, but Salerno made a CHOICE. It's all about choices and personal responsibility. I know, that's a novel idea in today's society. 'It's not my fault or responsibility'. I never did hear what Mr. Salerno's BAC was, only the driver. And, he made a CHOICE to get on that snowmobile, knowing that his friend had too much to drink. A CHOICE he made. No ones fault but his own. Not the bartender that served the drinks, not the company that made the alcohol, not the snowmobile manufacturer, and in a way, not the fault of his friend. He made a CHOICE to ride with someone that had too much to drink. Sad, but true. He is RESPONSIBLE for his OWN ACTIONS. No one else to blame.
A coward carries a hidden camera into the bar and unknowingly records people's actions. We are all human and all make mistakes from time to time. I'm sure a hidden camera could be used to expose Savini when he's not expecting it. A classless move.
Great story Jeff and Susan. So great that I'll probably start watching channel 9. No wait, I'm sure I'll be watching cahnnel 9 in the future.
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A very biased report on the snowmobiling issue from someone in Chicago who knows very little of the sport. Maybe we should blame Football because someone got drunk at a Chicago Bears Party. Got in his car and crashed. It gets tiring seeing the part time snowmobiliers from Illionis who come up here and make the rest of us look bad. I am a lifetime snowmobiler from Wisconsin and it appears that once again snowmobilers are under attack from people who know very little of the sport. How about taking responsibility for our own actions? How about doing a report on the 99% of snowmobilers who are responsible.
